# Thinking in Systems by Donella Meadows

> Every podcast that mentioned Thinking in Systems, what was said, and on which episode. Compiled by Podshelf from episode transcripts.

- Book page: https://podshelf.io/books/9781603580557
- ISBN-13: 9781603580557
- First published: 2008
- Publisher: Chelsea Green Publishing
- Topics: Mental models & clear thinking
- Mentioned 8 times across 6 podcasts, 2 top picks

## Where it was mentioned

### [Lenny's Podcast](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/lennys-podcast): 3 mentions

- 2026-09-20, [90 minutes of unfiltered product advice from Snap and Discord’s product chief | Peter Sellis](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/lennys-podcast/episodes/ep_mkvqjwqdag72jn2e): critical
  > “Sometimes you, like people say systems thinking, then they go out and buy that book. ... With the, with the slinky. ... Yeah. It's like, I'm a systems thinker now. ... I would love it if like maybe rather than reading the slinky book, there was more like Jay Forrester system dynamics, you know, from the like manufacturing, kind of stuff from the 1970s. And then I think just like a mathematical, like understanding of how the system works.” — Peter Sellis (guest)
- 2026-07-19, [Netflix CPTO on AI and the future of product and tech roles | Elizabeth Stone](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/lennys-podcast/episodes/ep_ob23xbkmb3eyxn6l): neutral
  > “So coming back to the systems thinking piece, people hearing this are like, okay, I got to work on my systems thinking skill set. How do people develop the skill? Other, is it just do it for a long time, work at a lot of complex projects? Like I think of this book that everyone always references with a slinky on the front, thinking in systems. Yeah. How do people learn this?” — Lenny Rachitsky (host)
- 2025-12-28, [10 contrarian leadership truths every leader needs to hear | Matt MacInnis (Rippling)](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/lennys-podcast/episodes/ep_mlavxn8kol35xkqo): recommended

### [The Pragmatic Engineer](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/the-pragmatic-engineer): 1 mention

- 2026-10-21, [The revised rules of engineering management with Will Larson](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/the-pragmatic-engineer/episodes/ep_nm7qj3ovgw9pjo5w): recommended, top pick
  > “I think, you know, Thinking in Systems of Primer by Donnell Meadows is like one that I think about a lot. … I think it's honestly the book that kind of formed my view about management and kind of operating in companies. I think that it's not really about operating companies, but it's like a mental model. You can use that book. I think it's incredibly, incredibly helpful.” — Will Larson (guest)

### [The Ezra Klein Show](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/the-ezra-klein-show): 1 mention

- 2026-10-09, [What if A.I. Is Just a ‘Normal Technology’?](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/the-ezra-klein-show/episodes/ep_wabyjg45ggoyj3vd): recommended
  > “I read a two page paper one time called how complex systems fail. I thought the paper was about software. I realized in the study of systems that actually explain the patterns in all kinds of systems natural and social and engineered systems and that led me to the book systems thinking by Donnella Meadows from many many years ago.” — Arvind Narayanan (guest)

### [Decoder with Nilay Patel](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/decoder-with-nilay-patel): 1 mention

- 2026-09-28, [The SaaSpocalypse that wasn't, with Atlassian's CEO](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/decoder-with-nilay-patel/episodes/ep_eb98jyvb7lzljmga): recommended, top pick
  > “First, I would say most important, we have a platform-centric CEO and co-founder who thinks in terms of platforms. Thinking and Systems is my favorite book, man. I have a copy on every desk. It's the job of you have to put the platform first collectively, and then you go solve a bunch of problems.” — Mike Cannon-Brookes (guest)

### [Better Offline](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/better-offline): 1 mention

- 2026-09-23, [The Hidden Recession Beneath The AI Bubble w/ Paul Kedrosky](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/better-offline/episodes/ep_eb98jyvzv9oyjmga): recommended
  > “Right. That's exactly right. But that in turn has consequences because that debt is collateral. No one just holds anything. That's used as collateral for other economic activity that I'm doing, whether it's leverage or other borrowing. And so as this debt becomes less valuable, it reduces my ability to other things in the economy as a functioning kind of economic actor. And so you have to always think about it. I like to point people, there's some great books out there by people like Donna Meadows and others. Like think about it in systems terms. You have to always connect everything to everything.” — Paul Kedrosky (host)

### [The Knowledge Project](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/the-knowledge-project): 1 mention

- 2026-06-09, [Mental Models That Change How You Think | Bill Gurley](https://podshelf.io/podcasts/the-knowledge-project/episodes/ep_m6k9r6v5yvdzx5gz): recommended
  > “What are the key mental models that you keep coming back to that sort of explain how the world works to you? I'm a big believer in systems thinking. There's a book called Thinking in Systems that I read. What does that mean to think in systems? I'm on the board of the Santa Fe Institute.” — Bill Gurley (guest)